Not too long ago, I watched what I consider to be a great video interview on biblical womanhood! Why did I like it so much?
The interviewer, Pastor Joel Webbon with Right Response Ministries, in an episode of “Theology Applied,” talks about the topic of women and speaking in the church with Lori Alexander, founder of The Transformed Wife blog and author of the book The Power of a Transformed Wife . Actually, they cover the woman’s role in general.
I was greatly refreshed by the emphasis on what the Bible literally says about this topic! Having been a follower of Lori’s blog for several years now, I enjoyed seeing her get a chance to remind women about their role, as a guest on what appears to be a respectable, biblically-sound YouTube ministry (I’m new to Right Response). After all, the message she teaches women about being submissive, loving homemakers is a message that is biblical, timeless, and definitely worth listening to!
If you haven’t already done so, I encourage you to take the time (59 min) to watch or listen to the video. I was very encouraged, and I think you will be, too!
Why Silent?
I like what Lori says regarding Bible studies where both men and women participate: the women are usually very talkative and tend to dominate the conversation. The men might have something very good to say but not much of a chance to say it! If women were to follow the command to “keep silent,” it would free up the men to lead the study.
Yes, I think she’s right. I’ve noticed that women do tend to be more talkative than men. The men, out of respect for them, will let them speak . . . even if the women sometimes don’t have a strong grasp of the topic. I’ve seen this not only in Bible studies but also in life in general. We women just don’t seem to know when to be quiet, and it sure is helpful to have a rule (in church) that makes us — otherwise, we might just go on and on!
Now, I do think there is a place for informal discussion about the Bible among a mixed group (such as this very interview with Pastor Joel and Lori). And I am in no way saying that women are brainless, stupid creatures who don’t have anything useful to contribute to the conversation and shouldn’t have a voice — so please don’t misunderstand me! (If I thought that, why would I be investing my time writing on a blog?) I wonder, though, where do we draw the line? First Corinthians 14:34-35 gives the answer:
“Let your women keep silence in the churches . . . for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”
That would seem to apply to Bible studies as well as Sunday services, don’t you think? Anytime believers are gathered together for corporate worship (which typically includes the elements of prayer, praise, and Bible teaching) we can regard that as “church.”
Another reason women should keep silent is because they are more easily deceived. We are told in 1 Timothy 2:11-12 that a woman is to “learn in silence with all submission. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” Why not? The very next verses (13-14) tells us:
“For Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
That’s not to say that men can’t be deceived, too. However, there seems to be a theme among women of being more susceptible to it than men. Women are generally more led by their emotions than men are. Hormones play a big part.
It’s not that I’m betraying my gender! I think women can be very smart (though as Lori points out, no women have ever been geniuses in the same way men have). However, we can’t deny biology, and as Christians we shouldn’t deny what God says in the Bible about women and the Fall. Our place isn’t to teach theology to men, it’s to live according to what the next verse (15) says:
“Notwithstanding, she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”
Yes, there is a place for women (we’ll look at this more in a moment), and it’s a very special, honored place: “to marry, bear children, and guide the home” (1 Timothy 5:14).
Reconciling 1 Cor. 11 and 1 Cor. 14 (Women in the Church)
Here’s something else I got out of the interview: a short explanation of what the Bible means when it says that women should keep silent in the church even though the headcovering passage (1 Cor. 11:2-16) seems to contradict this when it teaches that women need to wear a headcovering while praying and prophesying. I found Pastor Joel’s comparison of the two passages insightful.
*If you want to hear a more thorough discussion giving Pastor Joel Webbon’s view on headcovering, he and Bnonn Tennant (from It’s Good to be a Man) cover 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 verse by verse in a video titled Biblical Womanhood & Head Coverings. They talk about what headcovering symbolizes, why headcovering is for today, and give answers to some very common objections. I highly recommend it!
Video Time Stamp: 13:03-15:02
Here are the passages Pastor Joel brings up:
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
*compared with*
“Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.”
1 Corinthians 11:4-5 (all of 11:2-16 is applicable)
The question is this: If the woman is told in 1 Cor. 11 that she is supposed to wear a headcovering while praying or prophesying, but a couple chapters later is told to keep silent in the church, how can we reconcile that? Maybe you could pray in your heart, but you couldn’t be silent while prophesying, could you?
Some people believe that when the Bible commands women to wear a headcovering while prophesying, we should see that as applying to contexts outside of the church. So, women are silent while in church (though they participate in congregational prayer and singing), but prophesy out loud when not in church. This explanation is their way of trying to tie chapters 11 and 14 together.
While I understand that, I’m not so sure that’s the most accurate interpretation of chapter 11, which definitely seems be talking about times when the church is gathered together for worship. (In fact, all of chapters 11-14 appear to address order within corporate worship.)
I like Pastor Joel’s explanation, and it is the one I believe makes the most sense.
Women “prophesy” when they participate in reciting Bible verses and Christian creeds along with the whole congregation.
Women “pray” when they join with the whole church in group prayer.
Another way women can use their voices in church is when they sing.
If you watch both before and after the time stamp (where Pastor Joel specifically mentions headcovering), you will hear them talk about how it isn’t really necessary for a woman to share her own testimony publicly in front of the whole church (her husband can do this), give announcements, lead in prayer, or share little theological tidbits in between worship songs.
My personal opinion is that while I’m not super opposed to women doing those semi-neutral things, it would be better/safer if we were to avoid allowing women to do them and keep the talking (any talking, except for participating in group praying/singing/reciting) strictly to the men during the corporate worship gathering.
Women in the Home
Later in the video, the discussion turns toward women in the home. They both agree that Feminism has been bad for us all. Yes, I agree with that!
I especially appreciated what Pastor Joel said about Feminism making things so easy for men: they don’t have to pay for all the meals, they’re not expected to be the sole provider, can abandon a wife through no-fault divorce, can expect their wife to “take a pill” so she will be able to pay off her student loan debt, etc. Feminism hasn’t led to making women’s lives better; it’s led to making women’s lives more like men’s, contrary to our nature, while letting those who really are men off the hook from their responsibilities.
The Woman’s Unique Role
Society would do well to honor women for who they are and what they contribute uniquely as women:
Let’s honor their ability to bear new life! Don’t expect them to use birth control to smother their God-given design!
Let’s honor their desire to have children and nurture them at home! This desire is inside of us, tugging on our hearts — if we and our culture would only give us the freedom to listen to it!
Honor a woman’s special contribution to the family — her time spent in the home doing loving and useful things for her family cannot possibly compare to a second paycheck!
And finally, let’s honor men, also, and their unique contribution without questioning their ability to lead. They don’t need to be babysat by women. They don’t need us to compete with their abilities; they can do great on their own. When women compete with men, they take something away from them. Part of that something is being able to be the sole provider, but another part of it is their own God-given desire to achieve, take dominion, be the head, take charge. Women weren’t supposed to be the agressive ones, but were meant to have a gentle and quiet spirit (1 Peter 3:4).
Can I be super honest with you?
I’m naturally selfish. I sometimes have a hard time being gentle and quiet. I don’t think, in my case, it’s so much a struggle with Feminism as it is with sinful human flesh and its desire to have its own way. I also think it’s hormones, emotions, getting offended easily (who likes to admit that?), and thinking I’m so wise. Click: all good reasons why I need a husband to lead me. I need to take captive every thought to the obedience of Christ, moment by moment (2 Cor. 10:5).
If you struggle with those things, too, here’s a helpful post from Lori about women preaching:
So . . . what do you think? Would you like to share your thoughts on this topic?
If you watched the video, what did you think about it? (And if you watched the second video on headcovering I linked to, you could add your thoughts on that one, too).
~Jessica
Thank you for this lovely article. Having friends who are Muslim women I am often reminded that ladies are submissive to their male counterparts. I have a tendency to be in charge/to take over situations. My Christian friends cover their heads in church, remain silent in church and are homemakers. Outside of the church they do not remain silent and their heads are not covered. The Muslim women I know remain headcovered and silent to men outside of the church/mosque. There’s another difference that I find confusing. The Christian friends mix with the opposite sex in the church and outside of the church, whilst retaining all dignity. The Muslim women do not mix with the opposite sex at all. I find myself wondering if Christian worship should be totally gender segregated as well as silence from the female. My orthodox Christian worship is not gender segregated and I am questioning this. I cover my head both in and out of the church, due to my family on my father’s side. ( Mother Catholic, Father Jewish). I’m very confused about the matter and don’t want to be wrong. Any thoughts on gender segregated communities?
Susan, those are good questions!
I do believe that 1 Cor. 11 is addressing the corporate gathering and is not necessarily speaking about all of life’s varied activities. However, you’re right that the woman should seek to live within her God-given role at ALL times (though this may look different within different contexts). I think that if a woman wants to wear a headcovering full-time, that’s great!
I think I’ve seen that historically, men and women in Christian churches have often been segregated during the service? There were probably some very good reasons for this. I don’t have a problem with families sitting together. I don’t think the Bible says to do it one way or the other. I think churches must decide this issue for themselves.
~Jessica
Thank you so much for this! I never heard of Right Response Ministries before, nor had I heard of Lori and the amazing support she is giving to young women. The video resonates exactly what God has shown me over the past eight years in my heart. My newly saved husband, twelve years ago listened to Joyce Meyer. She was the ONLY one he could relate to, so it was difficult for the two of us to see that she was not honored by God, according to His Word. The phrase we heard that was resounding within the walls of the churches was, “God can use anything and anyone to save someone.” This reminded me of a vedeo my husband and I watched of Bethel Baptist going to a New Age event, using “Christian oracle cards” to supposedly ” save the lost.” In all reality, this ends up causing confusion, and we know who that comes from! We both believe that women should be meek, humble, and silent in the churches as well as in the home. We also believe ( according to His Word ) that feminism is of the spirit of the age. It has done more damage to women and men than our society ever shows. I am an older woman and even though my children are grown and are on their own, I am still a devoted “silent” wife who stays at home and serves my husband. The joy that comes from this is such an incredible blessing!
Hi, Cynthia, thank you for adding your thoughts!
The thing you said about Bethel Baptist sounds horrible! Yes, I agree that God is not the author of confusion. There is a right way of doing things, and there is a wrong way. Yes, God can use anything and anyone to accomplish His plans (like He used Pharaoh), but we need to make sure we are trying our best to conform to His “right way.”
~Jessica
I also have Moslem women friends and I think that we have a lot to learn from them in terms of both modesty and their commitment to chastity.
Another thoughtful and thought-provoking blog post, Jessica. I always look forward to seeing a new post from you!
I only came to head covering about a dozen years ago after many years as a Christian. So, reading 1st Corinthians 11 with fresh eyes was (and is) a feast for me. Because, at the same time, I was starting to really embrace the idea of Christian community as seen in Acts 2, I never thought there was a conflict between the commands for women to remain silent in church/not to exercise authority over men and the command to cover while praying and prophesying. As we see throughout the book of Acts, the early Church was vibrant and together daily – they did not relegate their spiritual activity to church meetings. In fact, rather than teaching me that women could lead in church as long as their heads were covered, the verses taken together taught me that women should be covering their heads outside of the gathering – any time they’re involved in spiritual activity – which should be all the time!
Okay, just as I always buy and throw away the horrid Debbie Pearl book any time I see one at a thrift store, I feel that, as an older sister in Christ who truly loves the Lord and embraces my God-given role as a submissive wife, homemaker, and homeschooler, I have to give my standard warning against Lori Alexander’s teaching. I truly feel this calling in my life.
Just like a fruit pie can come in many flavors, I believe that embracing your calling as a biblical wife and mother certainly looks different in every marriage. There are many ways of being a godly mother and wife that are acceptable, but I believe that Lori perpetuates one that isn’t godly or biblical: she alternatively elevates men to mini-gods in their homes (which is idolatry) and also speaks as if they are spoiled children who cannot be expected to rise up to godly manhood. If a husband wants sex and their wife doesn’t (no matter the reason – including her being on her monthly cycle, or legitimately sick), too bad for the wife. According to Lori, not only is a wife sinning if she denies her husband, but her agreement to marry him is consent to sex whenever he wants it. Obviously, this is not at all God’s heart for marriage. (In fact, I think the situation of Onan is a great example of what God thinks of men using women’s bodies solely for their own pleasure.)
While I could give numerous examples of Lori’s unbiblical perspective of marriage (in which the husband is a god who gets what he wants when he wants it, and he is also a petulant child who cannot be expected to participate in the raising of his own children, or to take out the trash), I think this might be easier and to the point: is Lori’s presentation gentle and quiet? Does Lori present her opinions humbly and with love? Are her words like apples of silver in settings of gold? Does she open her mouth in kindness? Does she speak the truth in love? Do her words give grace to those who hear? (I understand that sometimes what people need to hear is hard to hear…it doesn’t always feel like grace in the moment. However, snarky, condemning retorts are not gracious.) I would expect much more humility and grace from a woman who actually didn’t live the life she now espouses when her children were growing up. (To be clear: I don’t think that Lori’s past bars her from being a teacher of women. I wonder about her spiritual maturity if that past hasn’t caused her to be more humble and gentle. In fact, it calls to mind the parable of the unforgiving servant, who sought grace from his master for an unpaid debt, and then beat up his fellow servant for a much smaller unpaid debt.)
As Jesus told us that we know false teachers by their fruit, I think Lori’s harsh and judgmental presentation, in light of God’s calling to be quiet, loving, and gentle people, tells us to be mindful of her teachings.
In God’s word, a Christian couple is a spiritual force to be reckoned with. She is guarding and managing their home as a fully-fledged Christian woman – even capable of “prophesying” and approaching the Lord as an equal heir in the Kingdom of God – which enables her husband to do his equally powerful spiritual work among God’s people. Lori has perverted God’s vision to one in which men focus on their own pleasure (whether that’s in the bedroom or plopped in front of the TV all evening) and women are reduced to children whose husbands have every right to punish them for not loading the dishwasher the way their husband wants. The focus is taken away from God and placed in some bizarre caricature of “Christian” family that in no way reflects the power and glory we see in Scripture.
I’m sorry to be so long-winded. I am passionate about this topic because I see so many women who desire to obey God’s Word and be godly wives and mothers deceived by teachers like Lori & Debbie (Pearl) because there are few who teach on Godly womanhood from a Biblical perspective and it breaks my heart. I truly believe that this Fundamentalist (capital F – meaning the semi-formal branch of Christianity) perspective is a trap of Satan. At its best, it causes people to distort their homes and marriages into something God doesn’t desire them to be and put all of their focus on that little realm, and at its worst, it turns people away from God in disgust because they think He actually designed this distortion. They think that God’s teaching actually does lead to men like Josh Duggar…or Doug Phillips…or Doug Wilson…or what is going on in the SBC. The great name of Jesus is blasphemed because of these teachings and these people.
I appreciate your sharing your opinion, SBS. I always enjoy hearing from you!
I can’t say I feel the same way you do about Lori and Debi, but I think it’s good to allow alternate opinions in the comment section, as food for thought. Just because I like most things that Lori and Debi have to say doesn’t necessarily mean I automatically agree with them on everything. Yes, it’s good to exercise caution and compare everything to the word of God.
Thank you, friend. 🙂
~Jessica
I always appreciate your posts, Jessica!
And, I meant to mention in my comment that I appreciate how you share your thoughts on what are very controversial subjects in many circles with grace and humility. (And I agree with you on alternate opinions! I think being gently challenged on our own opinions is not a bad thing usually, but I also know that my leaving lukewarm Christianity for discipleship to Christ was the result of numerous conversations that started with me thinking that the other person had some pretty radical views that I didn’t agree with! lol While I never want to fall into “quarreling about words” as Paul says, I have experienced a radical transformation in my faith and walk with God because my thoughts and doctrines were challenged. Praise God!)
God bless!
Thank you, SBS!
Hi Jessica! When Brian and I met at college Bible study, our female classmates were very active in the discussion and leading of readings. This has continued in our church life.
HOWEVER, I COMPLETELY agree about the evils of feminism and how they’ve be ruinous to Christian women. I hope to model Christian womanhood to my daughters.
The problem with feminism is that it is the complete opposite of what it proports to be. It is in fact a dogma dedicated to the destruction, disrespect and ridicule of femininity and all aspects of Godly womanhood.
YES Susanna! You’re EXACTLY RIGHT! Christian women need to know their place in society.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Courtney!
Hi Jessica,
I totally agree with everything you just said!
You seem to lay your thoughts out better than I do as sometimes I can come across as too confusing then I end up confusing myself! Haha
Thanks for the well written blog post. I always enjoy your writings!
Blessings~ Rosemarie
Thank you very much, Rosemarie!
Well, sometimes I don’t know how to lay my thoughts out very well, either, ha, ha, and I have to go back and fix things that I had said in a confusing way. I really like that I am able to go back and edit my posts! 🙂
~Jessica
Yeah I saw the interview it was great! This is a huge issue in the church but I think its clear women should be silent. The bible gives us authority structure for a reason.
Glad you enjoyed the interview, Kevin!
So far as I understand it, women do not need to keep silent, song and prayer is perfectly proper. But it is wrong for women to preach or to teach in any way which implies authority over men., either in Church or in the wider world.
Susanne, thank you for chiming in! Yes, that’s what I meant: the way in which women are “silent” is through not preaching/teaching/speaking individually, though they can participate in congregational praying/singing/reciting.
~Jessica
Good thoughts, Jessica!
A note on the discussion above, also – I love Debi and Lori, but I also often disagree with them. It’s a mixed basket – I try to learn from them and just accept that I don’t agree with every point they make. However, either way, I admire their courage!
Thanks for the compliment, Diana! And thank you for chiming in with your thoughts on that topic. 🙂
~Jessica
Women are too busy to be involved in roles, such as preaching, that they weren’t created for. Search the New Testament for clues as to what those women did and for ideas as to what we as women were created for. There you will find women who prayed, who served others, who extended hospitality, who gave birth to Jesus and John the Baptist who…..well, check it out yourself.
To comment on SBS’s comment: it would indeed be too bad if some eligible young ladies would refuse to marry if they have been taught to believe marriage is is what was described in her comment. I can testify that not all men are as she suggested and described. We are equal. My children are also his children. He gives me love, support, and honour. He is my husband. Yes, we fill different roles but communication goes a long way in understanding each other.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Teann! Good point about women who served in the early church!
~Jessica
Saw Kellie today. I’m 38 weeks pregnant. Baby doing great, in perfect up position. I feel heavy, swollen and gravid…..and I couldn’t be HAPPIER! This is how He intends me to be, and I revel in gratifying Him with arrows.
I hope I’m not the only mom here who feels this way.
Courtney, I don’t think you’re the only one! Many women love being pregnant (just not feeling nauseous or tired, etc.) because of how beautiful it is to participate with God in bringing new life into the world.
Glad to hear everything is going well! I’ve been praying for the upcoming birth!
~Jessica
So sadly to say in our country Japan the government is trying to decrease housewives to increase workers, because of rapid decreasing of population.
Nowadays 70percent of wives are working. Some people insist that the more working wives increase, the more babies will be born,for their households become more rich.But this was not true.Actually babies in Japan are decreasing and average of husband’s salary is getting decreased for for decades.
Feminism is also so convinient for those who want to hire workers by cheap salary.
I agree with the opinion of pastor Joel about feminism and feel so encouraged to know that your country still has place to say no to feminism in public.
Creation order God has made never changes in any country.
I hope that our nation people know Jesus and turn their face to God.
Thank you for sharing this article!
You’re welcome, Sanae! I really enjoyed reading your thoughts. You said some important things. Thank you for taking the time to share with us!
~Jessica
Hope everyone had a wonderful Father’s Day. At church yesterday I told our pastor to not be surprised if we miss church next week. He laughed
,”Don’t worry Courtney, just remember: He doesn’t take attendance and will be VERY forgiving of why you miss church.” When we got home, we had a wonderful double celebration: Father’s Day and Sean’s 3rd birthday.
I say Kellie today, I’m 39 weeks pregnant. Baby doing great. But she told me I’m 1 cm dilated and almost 10% effaced. She said,”Next time I’m here, I’ll probably be guiding your baby out.” Anyone have advice for having a homebirth with 2 young children? (And those 2 LO both still nurse frequently)
So exciting ! God bless.
Courtney, I hope the upcoming birth goes well!
~Jessica
Two things. One, I hope you’re doing well! I can’t wait to see your new baby and any new videos you have up your sleeve. 🙂
Two – Remember that PDF of childbearing verses found in Genesis? Do you have a plan to continue that with every book of the Bible?
Thanks so much for those very kind remarks, Jessica!
Yes, I’m doing well! The new baby is due near August. I know I haven’t published any videos during this whole pregnancy — too tired for it right now. I really miss it, though. 🙂
I do plan on continuing to publish more lists of verses on childbearing. I have actually made a start on the Psalms. However, just like with the YouTube videos, because I have so little energy right now it’s just been waiting for me to finish it. But it’s on my to-do list! Thanks for asking!
~Jessica
Sorry to get political but: I’m SO GLAD SCOTUS is protecting innocent human life!
My DD is Sunday! :). Anyone with advice for a homebirth mom young children?
Do you have anyone who can come watch your kids in their rooms, or have them spend the day (or night) while you labor?
I do have a neighbor I’m somewhat close to. And my mom could make the trip from Paducah (we live in Coldiron), but it’s the other end of KY. Another factor: both are still nursing at least some.
Was nursing Ruthie (18-1/2 months old) and I winced a couple times. She unlatched asking,”Ok mama?”. I assured her I was okay, just that the baby may be coming soon. (I had a couple B-H) contractions)
We pleasantly surprised our pastor by making it to church yesterday (my due date). Saw Kellie today, had couple Braxton-Hi is while she examined me. She predicted a baby in next couple days. My mom will arrive this afternoon.
Hi, Courtney!
Just wanted to say I’m excited for you and your family regarding the upcoming birth! I have been praying that everything will go well. 🙂
~Jessica
ESTHER IS HERE! (Jessica, please spin this off to new post)
My mom arrived on Monday afternoon. We all settled in to bed that night. Early Tuesday morning I started having real contractions. Both LOs woke up wanting to nurse at breakfast time. They took turns and my mom took over, keeping them busy. About lunchtime my-water broke and we called Kellie. When she arrived, Ruthie followed her in the room. I nursed her one last time. My mom gathered them up as I began my journey to baby #3. I spent all afternoon and evening bringing her down into my birth canal. I spent most of labor on my hands & knees, face hurried in the pillow. The kids fells asleep about 8 and it helped I think because I could focus JUST on birthing my baby. Right about 11:30 I was ready to meet my baby. With a finish push, my beautiful little girl made me a mom of 3 and us a family of 5.
Congratulations! ❤️
Courtney, congratulations!! I’m so happy for you and your family! I hope and pray you enjoy a peaceful postpartum period, resting with your newborn and rejoicing with your family. I’m so glad everything went well! 🙂
~Jessica
Thank you so much Jessica! Esther is about 24 hours old. All 3 LOs nursing happily, as we adjust to our new edition.
Jessica, will you be able to make the birth story it’s own blog post? I want as many people as possible to see if.
Congratulations!
Congratulations !
BTW: Esther’s middle name is Jean. She was 7-11 & -8-1/2 inches
18-1/2 obviously. 🙂
Hope everyone had a wonderful day celebrating the birthday of our WONDERFUL COUNTRY! We surprised our pastor by making it to church Sunday. We tentatively planned Esther’s baptism for around Christmas.
I don’t know if anyone here is familiar with the phenomenon of being “touched out”. It seems to happen when moms are tandeming. I’m currently TRIANDEM nursing and I DON’T feel touched out, in fact I THRIVE on contact with my kids.
Congratulations Courtney and family on the birth of baby Esther! Haven’t checked back on Jessica’s blog in a bit, so missed the happy news. I admit to not knowing much about nursing multiple children at once, other than in the case of twins. I think my biggest concern would be in making sure I’m getting enough nutrition for myself and especially the newborn as the older children have alternate means of getting nutrition. Regardless though, it’s a pretty amazing thing to nurse our sweet children, and that God made us uniquely as nurturers. Congrats, again! 💕
Hi Jessica! Really enjoyed this post! It’s a lot to digest, but something that seems to be a struggle lately among quite a few churches. My question is this. They talked a lot about corporate worship with women being silent. If a mixed group of men and women decided to have a Bible study in the home, would these guidelines still apply?
Hi, Ruthie!
Sorry I didn’t see your comment right away; I had to fish it out of Spam (don’t know why it was there). I think your question is a good one! My thoughts are that even in a Bible study, you still have “church” (which includes the elements of praying, prophesying/teaching from the Word, and worship/singing — though we don’t always sing in Bible studies). It seems to me that women should listen and not speak, unless asked a specific question. We women just tend to talk too much! The men need to have a chance to lead the study, otherwise the women might take over.
However, this seems a bit hard to put into practice, since an informal Bible study in the home can be kind of like a chat around the kitchen table. I’m not sure that even I would find it easy to keep completely silent, when it came down to it! But, I think that we women can at least keep in mind that we need to listen a lot more than we speak.
~Jessica
I also think the guidelines still apply, I can’t see how it would be any different. I mean I know a few people that have home church and the women are quiet. Bible study shouldn’t be any different. Men should be leading and if there are questions I don’t see why women can’t answer when called upon or ask questions when its their turn.
Thanks to you both , Jessica and Kevin. I’m very thankful for your thoughts on this. It helped to have some reinforcement in an area that I was questioning and becoming unsure in.
No worries about the spam folder 🙂 You replied back very timely.
– Ruthie
I attend and help out at a Church women’s group. We do very much encourage a traditional approach to morality, gender, family and religious observance. But we have a rule not to discuss theology or religious matters which we believe are the sole preserve of our Priest.
That’s lovely, Suzanne! Do you mind me asking what types of things your women’s group help out with? That’s kind of a big question that the younger women are asking… if I can’t speak or pray or preach, what can I do? Also, am I understanding correctly that you do not have a women’s Bible study?
-Ruthie
Not at all. We encourage a very traditional Godly feminine (not feminist) lifestyle based on faith. We talk about modest and feminine dress, about chastity before marriage, about openness to children, childcare and about the place of Christian wives in the home – that sort of thing.
Thankyou!
Hi Jessica, how you holding up? Aren’t you due soon? Praying for a safe, easy birth.
Just to let everyone know if you’re worried: we are south of the flooding. We are all safe.
School start. Wednesday, but Brian will be able to take paternity leave until Columbus Day. We’re grateful he’ll be able to home and bond with Esther.
Great to hear that your husband will be able to have time with Esther and the rest of the family!
The way they reconcile the head covering passage and women being silent makes no sense. I mean maybe today reciting creeds and Bible verses and prayers are common in church services but it probably was not the case in Corinth since they did not have creeds and the whole Bible yet, so what were they reciting together? It makes no sense to interpret these passages based on what church is today, when it’s so different from the church in NT times.
Why do so many people, including you teach that a woman’s place is at home, serving her husband and having children? I’m not saying this is not valuable but that’s not the only option for women. Paul wrote he thinks it’s better not to be married and fully serve God, even for women. How do you explain that passage?
Hi, Tori,
I’m okay with answering your question, but I’m not okay with this turning into an argument. So let’s please agree that after I answer your question, we will just leave it at that, even if you have further thoughts. This blog is not a place for debate but for support for those that are like-minded. 🙂
First of all, how do you know that the early Christians did NOT recite Bible verses and early creeds? Scholars believe there are very early creeds recorded in the New Testament (for example, “For I delivered unto you first of all *that which I also received*, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures . . .” see 1 Cor. 15:3-8) . It makes sense to me that in the days of not having very many books and of not many people knowing how to read, these ancient creeds would be recited. The early Christians would probably have wanted to memorize what they did have of Jesus’ and the apostles’ words in whatever form those came to them. And of course, they could have recited verses from the Old Testament, and sang hymns together.
Why do so many people teach that a woman’s place is at home, serving her husband and having children? Because that is what the Bible teaches is the godly norm for most women. Yes, you’re right that a woman can choose not to marry in order to commit herself to full-time Christian service. And some women, though they may want to marry, may not have found the right man yet, or if married, may not have been able to have children. The exception does not negate the rule, however.
I wrote about this topic in this blog post, which will answer your questions about women more thoroughly:
https://theheavenlyhearth.com/2020/06/29/why-do-i-believe-in-biblical-female-submission/
~Jessica
I definitely believe that there are two options for women. For the overwhelming majority God means the vocation of marriage and motherhood, but for smaller numbers of often very gifted women there is a vocation of celibacy and more direct service to God. My belief is that this is best followed through association with some form of Holy Order, but I accept that some women may serve equally in an individual capacity.
It is of course possible for a woman to do both in her lifetime – if circumstances or her vocation change, but what is certain is that if you choose marriage and motherhood, it should be your focus not career and as a married woman you are in submission to God and your husband.
Hi, Susanne,
I’m glad we agree so perfectly on this point. Well said!
I completely believe that men are the preachers in the church, and that happy, godly women who are joyous to have been made by and in the image of our Lord will naturally have great admiration and respect for them. However, what I struggle with is where exactly the line is drawn. Of course I would never preach over a man, or act as I know more or better, however I would like to bring up some examples of worship at churches I go to ( I have a main church family and a secondary one closer to my sister’s house) that are somewhat in the fuzzy grey area on this topic. First example: at my main church the man who preaches the first sermon (he does a wonderful job, incredibly well studied and explained in a way that is easily understood but extremely captivating) will call upon people who would wish to read to raise their hand, then once selected to read the instructed verses from their own bible. Technically, a woman would be reading to the men at church, however she is only reading as instructed by the preacher. I think that this is a clear distinction, and an acceptable practice, but would love to hear any other thoughts. The second example: At my secondary church we do something called bible trivia during service. works like regular trivia but all questions are bible related. There’s no regulation on answering so everyone is yelling out their guesses the second they think of them. Now here you could argue that this is neither praying nor prophesying but just a fun game to encourage and strengthen
knowledge of the Word. And once again, if instructed by the man preaching is a woman speaking just an extension of his speech, as opposed to her own? As always, I would love to hear your thoughts and greatly thank you for your wonderful blog.
Hi, Simona! I agree with you that the examples you brought up are cases where it is appropriate for women to participate. I think that reading Scripture as directed by the pastor, and participating in Bible trivia as a way of strengthening one’s knowledge of the Word, do not involve anything unbiblical.
I share on my blog and on my YouTube channel. Some men may read or watch. However, I see it as okay because I’m sharing my thoughts in an informal context. Anyone is free to stop watching or reading at any point. I have no authority over anyone. And, I write/speak on themes related specifically to women, though some overlap does occur.
I don’t think women have to be totally silent all the time. I think the Bible is speaking of being silent only during specific activities, in a certain context.
Would love to hear what the other ladies think! . . .
~Jessica
Hi, I know that this is an older post but just wanted to say that it helped and blessed me! Thank you for your obedience to God and His Word! 🙂